It’s been a pretty overwhelming week on Reddit. Despite Chinese investment on the site, we can see the censorship Redditors were decrying hit full force on here. But all sarcasm aside, I think it’s time to approach the allegations and sensationalism surrounding China again to at least cast some doubt against these ridiculous claims. After doing some more research on the topics that have been popping up on Reddit, I would like to, once again address the major misinformation Western propaganda is promoting.
With that said, I want to first address the basic logical aspect and fallacies I notice a majority of these pieces and arguments hit on. Before even diving into the specific allegations Western media is portraying, we must recognize the following:
1.) Testimonies from "witnesses" are usually an unreliable source for their truth.
I first started to notice this claim when studying North Korean defectors, and how many not only end up embellish the truth, but outright lie. It is no surprise that many North Korean defectors inaccurately describe prison conditions, living standards, and absurd laws that they must abide by.. Additionally, many have become more skeptical because of the inconsistent nature these defectors do tell their story, when reiterating their tales about North Korea. It’s been later discovered that most of these stories are pressued by the South Korean government, really doing some shady shit to keep these narratives alive, threatening family members and others. That last link is a great documentary not only debunking the lies surrounding from the DPRK, but also showing the immense pressure they are under to push these faulty narratives. Along with the fame and fortune some of these defectors obtain, these “witnesses” are truly unreliable sources for the truth. As a side note, some of these North Defactor stories end in tragedy thanks to capitalism..
In US court, witnesses are only one aspect of evidence, not the only aspect. Opposing parties can even attack their credibility using their background, work, funding, etc. Whenever one sees a report that soley relies on the testimony of witnesses, whether they be doctors, or people of a certain religion, always be skeptical. Widespread horrendous behavior definitely needs more proof than mere superstition and witnesses that may be bias.
2.) Western media and NGOs should not be a credible source for information because of their use of unreliable sources, leaps in logic, and sensationalism if it is not coupled with legitimate unbias sources.
Iraq's weapons of mass destruction; North Korea's belief in unicorns, strict haircuts, and unbelievable ability to bring back people from the dead; Venezuela bullshit; and many many tidbits about Muslim groups in the Middle East (stunning how all of the sudden they care about the Muslims in China now). Idk how many times Western media and NGOs have shot themselves in the foot making these ridiculous claims concerning other non-Western countries. There are some that report with primary sources, but some articles are far and few in-between.
This CNN article is probably the epitome of Western sensationalism, leaps of logic, and Western pandering. It’s about the China prison transfer. Despite stating:
CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of this video or the date it was shot. Chinese Foreign Ministry officials did not respond to repeated requests for comment on the video. In a statement to CNN on October 4, authorities in Xinjiang said that "cracking down on crimes in accordance with law is the common practice of all countries. Xinjiang's crackdown on crimes has never been linked to ethnicities or religions," the statement added. "Transporting inmates by judicial authorities (is related) to normal judicial activities."
They go on to say:
The YouTube account which uploaded the video described it as demonstrating the "long-term suppression of human rights and fundamental freedoms by the Chinese government in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region."
They go on about Western intelligences, reporting from witnesses, and NGOs confirming it was fill of Uygurs (all of which we lopsidedly given their narratives to be true, even with the fallacies described above).
Specifically with Western NGOs, there has been countless documentaries on how most are being funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), which obtains its funds from the state department and CIA. Most NGO being funded by NED spout against governments in order to destabilize them, with one former CIA official stating “they do what we use to do in the 1950s. You don’t have to look far when it comes to this either (see Venezuela and NED’s funding of the opposition party). So obvious biases and sensationalism should not be supported through these sources.
3.) Reddit, and other media platforms have an unholy amount of Western bias
Western, white, males between the ages of 18-34 overwhelming make up the visits of the site. 70% male, over 60% from the US, Canada, and UK, and between 55%-90% between the ages of 18-49 (18-29 making 55%). This creates a cultural bias on news with different cultures, countries, and governments. Take reddit’s opinions with a grain of salt, even if it has hundreds of thousands of upvotes.
All that said, let’s get into some sources and details regarding some BS Western propaganda. Along with quoting some sources to prove these stories falsehoods, I will also add some logical analysis to go with it to help those understand China’s stances, or the ridiculous of such accusations:
1.) Organ Harvesting
"According to their allegations, at one such site in Sujiatun, near the city of Shenyang, a hospital has been used as a detention center for 6,000 Falun Gong prisoners, three-fourths of whom are said to have been killed and had their organs harvested for profit. American officials from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing and the U.S. consulate in Shenyang visited the area as well as inspected the hospital on two occasions and “found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.”
"No conclusive evidence has been located to either prove or disprove the allegations made by the report. Both the authors of the report and its opponents note the difficulty of verifying cases of human rights abuses within China, due to government secrecy and obstruction. While there are many reports from other agencies indicating that China has been taking organs from executed prisoners for some time, and, while some find the new report plausible and have called for China to allow investigation of the claims it makes, no major human rights commentator has fully supported its conclusions about the killing and taking of organs from live unwilling Falun Gong prisoners. At the current stage the allegations made by the report remain unproven and unsupported."
On its website, the China Tribunal says that it was “initiated by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC), an international not for profit organisation, with headquarters in Australia and National Committees in the UK, USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.”
So what is ETAC, really?
On ETAC’s website, one finds a “management” page with a list of people, devoid of any information except their names, photographs, and positions in the organization. The executive director and co-founder is Susie Hughes; Margo MacVicar is named as the New Zealand national manager; Rebecca James is the UK national manager for outreach, and so on.
Where do these figures come from, and what brought them together? The website has no bios. But follow the names, and it soon becomes apparent that there is another connection apart from ETAC — the Epoch Times.
A far-right anti-China propaganda network run by a cult The Epoch Times, which uses the slogan “Truth and Tradition,” has marketed itself as just another conservative, pro-Trump media outlet.
But NBC News published a major exposé in August revealing it to be the media arm of the opposition cult Falun Gong. The report details the bizarre workings of the Falun Gong organization, showing how the Epoch Times is carving a place for itself in American right-wing media.
NBC News found that the Falun Gong website spent more than $1.5 million on roughly 11,000 pro-Trump advertisements on Facebook in just six months, “more than any organization outside of the Trump campaign itself, and more than most Democratic presidential candidates have spent on their own campaigns.”
The article does a fantastic job on how the funding, right down the to key players and structure promote this propaganda in the West. I highly recommend the read to debunk this organ harvesting nonsense.
LOGIC: My biggest gripe with this is the fact that there is a major story about something as heinous as organ harvesting, when the only reports come from “witnesses.” Even though it is medically impossible to harvest organs on live patients, the West only has this as proof. No pictures, video, exposes, or anything besides witnesses and experts. If it is as widespread, and witnesses are able to talk about these things, I would assume there would be something more than their testimony. When you have other WESTERN country ambassadors and human right personel (let alone a report from the US Congress) stating “we can’t find anything”, it is truly telling what is really going on here.
2.) Ethnic cleansing, genocide, and mass internment
The estimate used most widely for over a year—of a million Uyghur Muslims held in Chinese camps—was arrived at using similar methods by a group called China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), and by Zenz. CHRD, based in Hong Kong and Washington DC, interviewed dozens of Uyghur people in Xinjiang. Interviewees gave estimates of how many people—ranging from 8% to 20%—were being detained in their towns. It averaged out to 12% and CHRD bumped the percentage down to 10% for a conservative estimate, ultimately giving them 1.1 million Uyghur Muslims imprisoned. CHRD also found that up to 20% of Uyghur villages are required to attend “re-education” courses during the day, adding millions more Muslims affected by China’s campaign.
That’s right. That one million number comes from a bunch of small interviews, applying (conservative!) estimates onto each an every town WITHOUT ACTUALLY CHECKING to estimate 1,000,000. Western NGO Interviews=math is, for some reason, good enough to make it in a UN report.
Btw: credit goes to here, an excellent up to date source on this subject with more links.
3.) Corporations with no backbone/standing up for HK (Free Speech Arguments)
This will be more of a logical breakdown of where this is stemming from, with a history lesson about China, with the hopes of those reading understanding why this hits a nerve with the Chinese people. I think this Rick Sanchez segment does an excellent job on how Western media constantly berates a country without any knowledge or appreciation for its culture and sovereignty.
Long story short, China has an embarrassing history (so embarrassing they actually call it “the “Century of Humiliation”)[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation] where intervention and imperialism by Western powers and Japan in China between 1839 and 1949 ran rampant in China and the government. Thanks to the Chinese Communist Party (CPC), not only was China finally unified under one government, but they were able to PROSPER with obscene amounts of wealth to the point where even the World Bank states that they lifted 800 million out of poverty in one generation, something that has NEVER been done in human history.
What I’ve been hearing about this is that it is not about free speech.. This is more about this concept: “You cannot continue to profit from a country while blasting ignorant shit about it, from a place that has constantly exploited and harassed it for decades.
4.) Back to HK protests
I wrote on these protests at infinintum, so I am going to copy/past my two other megathreads here as sources for these protests:
The extradition bill cane about when a man from Hong Kong killed his pregnant girlfriend while in holiday in Taiwan. He fled back to Hong Kong. Taiwan asked for him to be extradited, but Hong Kong did not have an extradition treaty with Taiwan, so the administration in Hong Kong proposed a bill that would allow Taiwan, the PRC, and Macau to request extradition, which the judiciary in Hong Kong can then approve. There were 49 crimes that were to be included in the bill that would allow extradition requests. Some of these were financial crimes, and the Bourgeoisie in Hong Kong shit themselves because they are often in breach of PRC law, but protected by Hong Kong's independence as a Special Administrative Region. This bill is completely reasonable, and any fears of the PRC taking over or of the extradition of 'political' criminals is unfounded. Right now I fear that the US is encouraging the organizers to keep protesting in order to provoke the administration in Hong Kong to crack down on them, so that they can blame China and keep up their propaganda narrative that 'CHINA BAD!'
Now this is from an academic paper that lists out these atrocious laws while Hong Kong was under British Rule:
Laws were passed to ensure that no Chinese would live in the most desirable areas in Hong Kong, which the British wished to preserve as their exclusive enclaves.
In a land in which ninety-eight percent of the population was Chinese, English was the official language. The Chinese language was not permitted to be used in government offices. Laws regulating conduct were written exclusively in English, a language which the vast majority of the population could not understand.
The British unleashed a horrid opioid epidemic on the Chinese through Hong Kong. Here is a clip of Professor Michael Parenti stating "when the communist liberated Shanghai from the sponsored Kumintang reactionary government, in 1949, about 20% of the population of Shanghai, 1.2 million people, were drug addicts.".
"The slave trade was merciful compared with the opium trade. We did not destroy the body of the Africans, for it was our immediate interest to keep them alive; we did not debase their natures, corrupt their minds, nor destroy their souls. But the opium sellers lays the body after he has corrupted, degraded and annihilated the moral being of unhappy sinners."
The more fucked up part about this was that the Chinese government seized some of the opium and destroyed it. But after the opium wars, they were forced to compensate the very people that were poisoning their country ($6 million).
"The highest level British official in China in the late 1840s described Hong Kong as the “great receptacle of thieves and pirates protected by the technicalities of British law.”
"Hong Kong has been Chinese Territory since ancient times. This is a fact known to all, old and young in the world…. British imperialism came to china by pirate ships, provoked the criminal "opium war", massacred numerous Chinese people, and occupied the Chinese territory of Hong Kong…. It is the British imperialist who have come from thousands of miles away to seize our land by force and kill our compatriots"
Sex slavery was a booming market, as girls were bought and sold by wealthy Chinese and British men. British rule legalized the sale of human beings and slavery, despite it being illegal in England.
Chinese residents were given curfews, and criminal punishments would range from legal physical beatings to bodily mutilation (compared to British rule breakers who would just pay a fine).
More Recent arguments made against the HK protests can be seen here
But I will also like to highlight this HUGE database that has been recording everything that has been going on with the HK protests in the beginning here:https://bitbucket.org/TheCrypticMan/hong-kong-protests/wiki/2019%20attempted%20'Black%20Revolution'
I still stand wholeheartedly with China here. It is absolutely unfair regarding the lack of understanding about China’s foundations; egregious racism, Sinophobia, and bigotry; and flat out lies people has been spreading about this nation that has gone through HELL to get where it is today. China is an economic miracle and has an enriching culture that everyone can learn from and implement. When I see that 1.4 billion has health insurance, housing, food, education, and clothes (even the poorest of the poor), while places of equal circumstances (like India) struggle to have anyone of these basic necessities, I know there is SO MUCH China can offer to the world.
Additionally, if anyone is interested in doing projects or interviews regarding this, I’ll be more than happy to set up this and spread this information more. Just PM me.